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| [10:43:48] | <rovo> | Hello Guy, I've been reading various articles suggested to me on here, to help explain the dev/stage/prod workflow in Aegir, but I am still missing a couple key areas of understanding, and feel i am approaching this wrong. |
| [10:44:32] | <rovo> | For instance, I don't find anywhere, what the best practice is for setting your domain/subdomains, within aegir, per dev/stage/prod instance of your site. |
| [10:46:01] | <rovo> | The wall I run into there is, say I set my dev to dev.sitename.com ; prod to prod.sitename.com ... that is ok the first time, but later one when I update dev.sitename.com ; I'm not connecting how I can move the updated dev site to my prod site; because the domain prod.sitename.com is already taken. |
| [10:46:55] | <rovo> | I feel like I am making this way over complicated, and there is a more straightforward logic I could be following. Any insights into this would be awesome. Thank you. |
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| [10:53:34] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: are you talking code or content/settings/etc? |
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| [11:21:38] | <Egyptian[Laptop]> | is there like a treasure chest of make files for platforms? |
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| [11:32:28] | <rovo> | halcyonCorsair: I mean a mixture of both. I mean both content and code go through a lot of changes when I might build something in stages for a person. |
| [11:35:32] | <rovo> | do you have some examples of you might setup your domain paradigm between the set of instances? |
| [11:38:47] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: re: code -- migrate from platform A -> platform B, re: content perhaps backup and restore? |
| [11:39:00] | <halcyonCorsair> | but having said that, its a problem i haven't had to deal with much thus far |
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| [11:40:17] | <rovo> | halcyonCorsair: so it's not something Aegir can really handle on its own? I was thinking somehow i could just clone or migrate a dev site to a production site |
| [11:41:11] | <rovo> | then i started thinking, maybe i need to be migrating platforms to platforms, to accomplish this? But that seems like overkill. |
| [11:41:47] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: http://omega8.cc/the-best-recipes-for-disaster-139 |
| [11:42:01] | <rovo> | and i believe a migration would eliminate the platform i am migrating from, which isnt a good option either. I am pretty sure I'm just majorly misunderstanding something |
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| [11:42:25] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: migration won't delete a platform |
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| [11:46:56] | <rovo> | I just find it perplexing that there doesnt seem to be any way to Clone a site instance, from a Staging to a Production, on the same platform. |
| [11:49:15] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: uh, if i understand you correctly, then there is a way -- the platform just needs multiple profiles |
| [11:49:29] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: what is your goal for the different states or staging & production? |
| [11:49:52] | <rovo> | well, ok. Say I build a site on Drupal 7.8 platform. |
| [11:51:17] | <rovo> | I set the "Domain name:" to dev.sitename.com . Once I'm done, I want to keep that site there, but also migrate it to a production. So I then clone it to prod.sitename.com, and map that to the public domain address. |
| [11:52:49] | <rovo> | Then i go back and work on the dev.sitename.com instance somemore; make substantial updates, and determine it's in a good stage to go live. So my thinking is, ok just Clone it to the prod.sitename.com instance. |
| [11:53:06] | <rovo> | Except, Aegir doesn't allow that, because prod.sitename.com already exists. |
| [11:53:25] | <mig5> | no, you should get those changes in git, and deploy a new platform with those changes, and Migrate the prod.sitename.com site to that new platform, thus applying the changes. |
| [11:53:43] | <mig5> | there's no magic way to just 'merge' two existing sites, or the changes from one to the other |
| [11:53:56] | <mig5> | you should be getting that stuff into version control and doing 'rolling release' builds, new platforms all the time |
| [11:54:06] | <mig5> | and then delete the old platforms (yes, they accumulate) |
| [11:54:45] | <mig5> | and yes it's not entirely feasible, especially when your 'changes' were putting stuff in the database, because that's the problem with database-driven cms systems like drupal |
| [11:54:54] | <mig5> | your only option is to use features to try and get as many database changes into code as you can |
| [11:55:23] | <mig5> | and use something else to 'migrate' content, if you really have to |
| [11:55:48] | <rovo> | mig5: wow, that was really insightful. |
| [11:56:03] | <mig5> | you would not ever want to 'clone' the dev site to productio, even if it were possible, because while you were making changes in dev, the production site was probably changing itself, by real users |
| [11:56:04] | <rovo> | took me a while to digest your first comement |
| [11:56:27] | <mig5> | look at the diagram towards the end of my article again.. each time we build a new platform, with say, your changes to your custom module or theme |
| [11:56:35] | <mig5> | and then we *migrate*, only ever migrate, the live site between platforms |
| [11:56:47] | <rovo> | ok... I'm starting to understand... i feel like i need to sit and meditate on this a bit.... but it's starting to make sense now. |
| [11:56:58] | <rovo> | I see .. ok :) |
| [11:56:59] | <mig5> | yes, eventually it 'clicks' :) |
| [11:57:09] | <rovo> | woosh... that was a big egg |
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| [11:57:23] | <rovo> | man, i think I'm going to copy all that and read it over and over |
| [11:57:28] | <halcyonCorsair> | mig5: what article? |
| [11:57:52] | <mig5> | the one rovo read yesterday from my site |
| [11:58:11] | <mig5> | http://mig5.net/content/drupal-deployments-workflows-version-control-dru... |
| [11:58:45] | <mig5> | step 6 in the diagram, is how to apply your dev changes to live |
| [11:58:46] | <mig5> | http://s3.amazonaws.com/ember/fwyl37Fjb60ht0jIUyn0c0e9vq2wJYMH_o.png |
| [11:59:14] | <mig5> | after making a new platform in 5 that pulled in the changes (that you presumably committed to git in 4) |
| [12:00:21] | <rovo> | yes, i kept looking at that chart this morning, but just wasn't getting it 100% at the time, but now it's a great great reference |
| [12:00:31] | <mig5> | it could be better, that diagram :) |
| [12:00:42] | <mig5> | it forgets to really point out one or two things: |
| [12:00:46] | <mig5> | 1. the first site (green) is your live site |
| [12:00:58] | <mig5> | in step 3, cloning, do it to a *new* platform, not the same platform as live |
| [12:01:08] | <mig5> | and hack away on that new platform, on your new dev site that is a clone of live |
| [12:01:36] | <mig5> | get all that stuff you changed, somehow, into version control, or in some way for drush make and a makefile to 'pull' that code into a third, fresh, platform that matches the dev platform |
| [12:01:50] | <mig5> | and finally, migrate that live site to that new fresh platform, then delete the old platform if you like |
| [12:01:56] | <mig5> | rinse and repeat, over and over :) |
| [12:02:13] | <Harley> | great discussion! |
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| [12:03:35] | <Harley> | mig5: can I inquire. I have looked for how to set up a git hub to do this and hit a wall! Not a developer but have a similar use case for AEGir as rovo. can you offer any links or guidance on the how to? |
| [12:04:31] | <mig5> | not sure what you mean: on setting up a github account? |
| [12:04:35] | <mig5> | or on using git |
| [12:05:48] | <Harley> | i have a git account. but how to have the code changes for theme development, etc stored there. (assuming I am understanding your narrtive above) |
| [12:07:04] | <mig5> | well you create repositories for your various components... eg your module or your theme. some people put their whole copy of the platform in git, though that's a bit overkill |
| [12:07:15] | <mig5> | and when you build the platform with drush make, you reference the git URLs for those components |
| [12:07:34] | <mig5> | see http://drupalcode.org/project/drush_make.git/blob_plain/refs/heads/6.x-2... for the syntax for drush makefiles |
| [12:07:45] | <mig5> | eg |
| [12:07:46] | <mig5> | projects[mytheme][download][type] = "git" |
| [12:07:46] | <mig5> | projects[mytheme][download][url] = "git://github.com/jane_doe/mytheme.git" |
| [12:07:51] | <Harley> | when i first learned bout AEgir I wanted to keep my makefile in git then when i build a site i just call that make file. |
| [12:08:01] | <Harley> | reading |
| [12:10:07] | <Harley> | to confirm.. the dev work is done in git, then commit the changes to a platform? |
| [12:12:55] | <halcyonCorsair> | mig5, Harley: site: test.com -- create new platform (v2), clone test.com to v2.test.com -> testing OK, migrate test.com to platform v2, yes? |
| [12:14:46] | <mig5> | halcyonCorsair: almost correct |
| [12:15:08] | <halcyonCorsair> | mig5: what am i missing? (other than backups, etc :)) |
| [12:15:09] | <mig5> | site: test.com -- create new platform (v2), clone test.com to v2.test.com -> testing OK, create new platform (v3), migrate test.com to platform v3 |
| [12:15:20] | <mig5> | technically though, yes you could migrate to that v2 dev platform |
| [12:15:36] | <mig5> | but i like to keep the platforms separate... another dev could still be hacking on that v2 platform for some other change, and break the live site if it was moved to it |
| [12:15:40] | <Harley> | halcyonCorsair: reading along. |
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| [12:16:08] | <mig5> | halcyonCorsair: actually re: backups, that's the beauty of it... the Migrate in aegir, does a backup before moving the site to the new platform. so you have rollback functionality too |
| [12:16:36] | <halcyonCorsair> | mig5: ah ok, so what am i missing then? |
| [12:16:46] | <mig5> | after you do the testing, you create yet another platform |
| [12:16:54] | <mig5> | that pulls in your committed changes from v2 |
| [12:17:04] | <Harley> | mig5: on this model you noted above what occurs is you leap frog v2. so the DB is kept current. |
| [12:17:05] | <mig5> | but it's a pristine, fresh copy that just has your fix and is otherwise the same as the original platform |
| [12:17:51] | <mig5> | the basic premise is: whenever you want to *change* live, you roll out a new 'build'. it's also useful as an audit trail |
| [12:18:20] | <mig5> | 'why did the site break?' 'happened right after Bob rolled out a new platform containing git commit 'some crazy fix' and migrated the site to it |
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| [12:19:11] | <mig5> | leave v2 platform for other dev changes, or blow it away. |
| [12:19:19] | <Harley> | mig5: regarding git.. bob then does his work in Git and then commits the changes up to the test platform. (Understand this is off room topic as more about how to use git) |
| [12:19:21] | <halcyonCorsair> | mig5: ah, with the model we're currently using, we have a UAT aegir, and a PROD aegir, so we would never upload a 1.0-dev platform, therefore no need to leap frog, yes? |
| [12:20:06] | <mig5> | well either way you want to roll out a new platform (i call this a 'build') on prod that contains the changes approved in UAT |
| [12:20:12] | <mig5> | and migrate your site to that new build |
| [12:20:20] | <Harley> | halcyonCorsair: if you have a UAT and PROD how do you keep the DB in sync? |
| [12:21:30] | <halcyonCorsair> | Harley: UAT is only for functionality testing, so DB doesn't really matter for us, actually mig5, could we use backup and restore to periodically keep db current if we wanted? |
| [12:22:08] | <Harley> | halcyonCorsair: got it |
| [12:22:55] | <halcyonCorsair> | Harley: also, the work we're currently doing is based around a fairly extensive install profile, with the intention of using it as a starting point for various 'cookie cutter' sites for this client |
| [12:24:10] | <Harley> | halcyonCorsair: ok |
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| [12:27:45] | <rovo> | mig5: at the risk of sounding like an idiot... i had been looking at this different all this time. I feel like after all this explanation, I should almost be thinking of platforms more like the site |
| [12:28:25] | <rovo> | it seems like to follow this workflow... you "shouldn't" have multiple sites on a single platform? I'm not really sure how that would work... |
| [12:29:35] | <rovo> | currently, i would setup say, a drupal 7.8 platform, then launch a bunch of sites on it...thinking of it as a multisite install... has this been wrong of me? |
| [12:31:10] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: when you are talking about changes to your dev site, do you mean content changes or code changes? |
| [12:33:12] | <rovo> | halcyonCorsair: unfortunately both.as far as code, i may have made new templates/css udpdates, possibly additional modules; at the sametime additional pages may have been created... so i just assume push it all at once. |
| [12:38:08] | <rovo> | so a platform should really be more of a single focused drupal for one purpose, and not a generic drupal setup to cater to a bunch of different sites? |
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| [12:44:58] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: either is fine |
| [12:45:50] | <halcyonCorsair> | rovo: but once a platform has 'live' sites on it, you shouldn't work on that platform, you should create a new 'dev' platform, and migrate sites as needed (sorta per conversation above), make sense? |
| [12:46:09] | <rovo> | yes :) |
| [12:47:23] | <rovo> | I can't think you guys enough, halcyonCorsair and mig5 ... seriously cleared things up tremendously. it really makes so much more sense now. not sure why i couldn't see this before. |
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| [13:23:20] | <AquaticDisorder> | I was thinking for live sites would clone to own platform first (with diff subdomain) and test migration to new one and then migrate if test checks out ok |
| [13:28:34] | <halcyonCorsair> | pretty much it i think |
| [13:29:44] | <AquaticDisorder> | AquaticDisorder enjoying a cuppa and mini choc cup cake at 4.30am q8) |
| [13:30:11] | <AquaticDisorder> | 2x mini choc cup cakes hehe |
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| [13:44:48] | * AquaticDisorder wonders if mig5 sees the australis borealis from where he is, the recent 'big flare' has made for some gr8 pics and cool videos from iss |
| [13:46:02] | <rovo> | halcyonCorsair: your going to kill me... but i still don't get how you go about naming your domain names... |
| [13:46:26] | <rovo> | what kind of system do you use? |
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| [14:10:45] | <AquaticDisorder> | rovo: I use platform per site -> platform name = d6-22-build-20110929-0500-dev | site name = build-20110929-0500-dev.mysite.com |
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| [14:11:30] | <rovo> | AquaticDisorder: nice. thanks for sharing. |
| [14:11:50] | <AquaticDisorder> | d6-22-build-20110929-0500-stg | site name = build-20110929-0500-stg.mysite.com |
| [14:12:10] | <AquaticDisorder> | d6-22-build-20110929-0500-live | site name = mysite.com |
| [14:14:13] | <rovo> | Do you ever duplicate a platform so that you can migrate a site to it, but leave it available for migrating other sites to it later if need be? |
| [14:15:32] | <rovo> | nevermind, i think that was a illogical situation |
| [14:16:05] | <AquaticDisorder> | I think of my platform as my site tbh |
| [14:16:37] | <AquaticDisorder> | I like using the makefile approach |
| [14:18:03] | <rovo> | by migrating a site, you are essentially freeing up the platform it seems. |
| [14:18:14] | <rovo> | instead of cloning it |
| [14:18:28] | <AquaticDisorder> | yh I think so |
| [14:20:53] | <AquaticDisorder> | aegir just as easily accommodates multiple sites per platform though |
| [14:24:55] | <AquaticDisorder> | I'm no expert but I think its safe to say if sites are for different clients then you don't have to but maybe wise to use a different platform per site |
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| [14:33:21] | <rovo> | any hosted Make files you like for a platform? or just your own that oyu made? |
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| [14:40:07] | <AquaticDisorder> | a free site tool that builds makefiles for you to download http://drushmake.me/ |
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| [14:45:28] | <AquaticDisorder> | wtf |
| [14:47:47] | <rovo> | AquaticDisorder: what happend |
| [14:49:17] | <AquaticDisorder> | not sure think maybe we all got disconnected then reconnected same time which killed hefring who then ressurected himself from the dead! |
| [14:49:23] | <AquaticDisorder> | botsnack |
| [14:49:23] | <hefring> | mmm... provisions |
| [14:49:40] | <rovo> | botsnack |
| [14:49:40] | <hefring> | thanks rovo :) |
| [14:49:53] | <rovo> | thats fun |
| [14:50:04] | <AquaticDisorder> | I know cool! |
| [14:50:12] | <AquaticDisorder> | mig5++ |
| [14:50:24] | <AquaticDisorder> | darthsteven++ |
| [14:50:31] | <AquaticDisorder> | anarcat++ |
| [14:50:38] | <AquaticDisorder> | omega8cc++ |
| [14:50:38] | <anarcat> | o/ |
| [14:52:31] | <rovo> | I'm still having a hard time reconciling that everyone seems to be using Aegir mainly as a site per platform... in order to handle the dev/stage/prod workflow |
| [14:53:18] | <rovo> | rather than multiple sites per platform; which is what I had been thinking all this time aegir really excelled at. |
| [14:53:28] | <AquaticDisorder> | it's not mandatory, same goes for drupal native multisites |
| [14:53:48] | <rovo> | true, of course, but it really seems like the best way, which i find odd. |
| [14:54:00] | <AquaticDisorder> | it does it just depends on use case I suppose |
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| [14:55:02] | <rovo> | i wasn't expecting aegir to merge sites... but how i had been trying to make it work(which i now understand it doesnt) is to clone a site from dev to prod, overwriting an existing prod, on the same platform. |
| [14:55:57] | <AquaticDisorder> | platform per site is like distribution development stuff where as multiple sites per platform your using more as hosting frontend |
| [14:56:20] | <rovo> | also, do you know of some quick way to duplicate platforms? |
| [14:56:45] | <rovo> | i keep reading these docs, and it sounds like there is some fast way through the aegir ui to do so, but i dont know of that. |
| [14:57:06] | <AquaticDisorder> | I think there's a contrib module |
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| [14:58:48] | <AquaticDisorder> | hmm guess not |
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| [16:20:57] | <darthsteven> | rovo: http://drupal.org/sandbox/zhangtaihao/1289410 |
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| [18:08:16] | <hefring> | community => Homepage returning 403 => http://community.aegirproject.org/discuss/homepage-returning-403 |
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| [19:40:47] | <Aciid> | provisioning baby all niiitee looong |
| [19:41:23] | <Aciid> | I think theres something wrong in the way some of our staff build "platforms" |
| [19:41:52] | <Aciid> | clone of a clone of a clone of a clone "now this is our standard base install 'clone'" everyone use this for all sites you build from this day on |
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| [04:57:49] | <anarcat> | darthsteven: ping |
| [04:58:02] | <darthsteven> | anarcat: pong! |
| [04:58:02] | <anarcat> | darthsteven: what steps (if any) have you taken to try to upload the debian packages? |
| [04:58:21] | <darthsteven> | anarcat: none |
| [04:58:23] | <darthsteven> | at all |
| [04:58:23] | <anarcat> | ok |
| [04:58:32] | <darthsteven> | I don't know where to begin! |
| [04:58:48] | <anarcat> | http://community.aegirproject.org/debian is a good start :) |
| [04:59:08] | <anarcat> | dput builder ../build-area/aegir-provision_1.0~rc4-1_i386.changes |
| [04:59:12] | <anarcat> | is the only step you can't do |
| [04:59:16] | <anarcat> | i'll do it this time |
| [04:59:29] | <darthsteven> | thanks |
| [04:59:31] | <anarcat> | but next week, i'll work on moving the repo to debian.aegirproject.org on the jenkins server |
| [04:59:34] | <darthsteven> | I would like to learn next time |
| [04:59:37] | <anarcat> | so that we can give access more broadly |
| [04:59:40] | <darthsteven> | but no time at the moment! |
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| [06:25:44] | <halcyonCorsair> | hefring: tell rovo: i use a single platform for several sites, and then migrate them gradually to a new platform/platforms as required by updates, etc |
| [06:25:44] | <hefring> | halcyonCorsair: I'll pass that on when rovo is around. |
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