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| [02:36:54] | <stieglitz> | I'm trying to create a D8 platform but it doesnt verify because the file structure is different. Can anyone tell me if it is just a matter of moving the files from /core into the site root? |
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| [02:39:56] | <drakythe> | anarcat: ping |
| [02:47:12] | <EclipseGc> | stieglitz: that should break the crap out of D8 |
| [02:47:18] | <EclipseGc> | stieglitz: I'd heavily advise against even trying |
| [02:47:57] | <stieglitz> | ok. thanks. I did try and it failed hopefully everything else is intact :-/ |
| [02:48:50] | <EclipseGc> | stieglitz: the move to the core directory approach is a very very good thing for Drupal in general. I don't know when aegir will support D8 (or if it already does) |
| [02:49:47] | <stieglitz> | Thanks again. |
| [02:51:43] | <EclipseGc> | mig5: you at DrupalCon Sydney? |
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| [04:32:05] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: fyi, BOA supports D8, since we are using modified Drush 4.6 and modified Aegir 2.x, the only thing is that the last working D8 platform is _DRUPAL8="8.0-dev-120915" because later it got so broken that even Drush 5 dropped D8 support. Yet, you can still use that last working D8 head on Aegir with BOA |
| [04:32:36] | <omega8cc> | stieglitz: ^^ |
| [04:32:57] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: interesting, I've stopped (in my own environment) trying to keep drush and D8 working together |
| [04:33:04] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: it was too much of a headache |
| [04:34:00] | <stieglitz> | interesting indeed |
| [04:34:16] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: yeah, I have even made Registry Rebuild D8 compatible, before it no longer worked (after system table was gone) |
| [04:34:49] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: yeah, so much changing in D8 constantly |
| [04:34:57] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: I don't envy drush people chasing it |
| [04:35:13] | <omega8cc> | heh |
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| [04:40:40] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: so… has aegir basically stagnated at this point? or is the plan just to jump straight to 8? |
| [04:42:44] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: there was that idea to skip D7, but we have dropped it, so there will be D7 port first |
| [04:42:57] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: really? |
| [04:43:09] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: playing with 8 daily, I see a lot of good reason to jump straight to it |
| [04:43:22] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: but then, I've been out of the aegir loop for months now |
| [04:44:28] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: yeah, I also supported going straight to d8, but there is some reasoning behind porting to D7 first, let me find that post on c.a.o |
| [04:44:43] | <EclipseGc> | cool |
| [04:44:44] | <omega8cc> | http://developmentseed.org/blog/2010/sep/02/aegir-10-release-drupal-7-ea... |
| [04:44:52] | <omega8cc> | just kidding |
| [04:44:54] | <omega8cc> | hehe |
| [04:44:58] | <omega8cc> | one sec |
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| [04:49:44] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: so while c.a.o is down, we have also this statement on https://drupal.org/node/1261030 "Note that the maintainers aren't focusing on this aspect of Aegir at the moment, we've decided to postpone until the D8 feature freeze, and then port to D8 instead." - but it is *probably* no longer true, at least to my knowledge |
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| [04:50:06] | <EclipseGc> | oh ok |
| [04:50:18] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: well I think the straight port to D8 is probably a really great idea |
| [04:50:26] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: especially with the config entities and CMI |
| [04:53:07] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: yeah, but there is this issue with big jump from Drush 4 to Drush 6 then, and also with PHP version requirements, packages available on Debian and Ubuntu, and so forth, I need to find that post in Google cache, ouch |
| [04:53:37] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: oooooh, yeah I totally get what you're driving at |
| [04:53:52] | <EclipseGc> | omega8cc: looks like minimum php req for D8 will be 5.3.10 |
| [04:56:24] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: and who knows what else, since I think it is not going to be released until 2014, so we would end up with too long unsupported alpha stage for Aegir 2.x if we skip D7 |
| [04:57:07] | <cweagans> | I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't released at Drupalcon Prague. |
| [04:57:44] | <EclipseGc> | I'll be surprised if it IS released by Prague |
| [04:58:09] | <EclipseGc> | end of 2013 is what Dries is telling people, and as an IO, I think that's probably reality |
| [04:58:16] | <EclipseGc> | he's not BSing people |
| [04:59:29] | <omega8cc> | it is here: http://community.aegirproject.org/discuss/another-stab-short-and-long-te... |
| [05:00:03] | <omega8cc> | but reasoning is somewhere else |
| [05:00:54] | <anarcat> | drakythe: pong |
| [05:02:51] | <drakythe> | anarcat: Oh, hello! So I'm looking into attempting to setup an aegir cluster, as I understand it I should use the Pack module, but the instructions are a little fuzzy to me. Do you know of any good walk-throughs/tutorials/descriptions of how to do it? |
| [05:03:05] | <omega8cc> | EclipseGc: it is on the IRC: http://hefring.mig5.net/bot/log/aegir/2012-09-10#T267855 |
| [05:03:13] | <drakythe> | anarcat: it probably doesn't help that I'm something of a networking newb... (okay a lot of a newb) |
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| [05:07:07] | <omega8cc> | cweagans: end of 2013 is a goal, and the project leader has this role to talk about goals, but, well, this thing got so big, and so heavy rewritten, that I personally expect it to be released in 2014 |
| [05:07:58] | <omega8cc> | err: heavily |
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| [05:10:41] | <anarcat> | hi all |
| [05:10:52] | <anarcat> | so i'm looking at making 2.0 alpha1 debian package today |
| [05:11:01] | <anarcat> | to try to ship the new ssl code to a wider audience |
| [05:11:23] | <anarcat> | then next week i'll start banging at the other release goals, and try my luck at a2 :) |
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| [05:19:34] | <EclipseGc> | anarcat, omega8cc: I'm about to head out for lunch but I wanted to ++ the hell out of this statement |
| [05:19:55] | <EclipseGc> | "<anarcat> so going crazy with entities as they are in D7 seems a bit premature when they will mature in d8" |
| [05:20:18] | <omega8cc> | yeah |
| [05:21:01] | <EclipseGc> | there's a lot still moving on entities even as we speak, but even now they're better than in D7, so I think the straight port D6-D7 of aegir is probably a REALLY sound idea |
| [05:21:21] | <anarcat> | whoa that's old :) |
| [05:21:28] | <anarcat> | yeah |
| [05:21:41] | <anarcat> | i wish i had the time to do a rush port and ship 2.x with d7 :) |
| [05:21:51] | <anarcat> | unfortunately, there are many other things in the pipelines i want to ship with 2.x |
| [05:22:00] | <EclipseGc> | yup |
| [05:22:07] | <omega8cc> | but still, with so many and so big changes in D8, this seems to be a too big jump for us, especially after all those changes in a few recent months, dropping D8 support in Drush 5 etc |
| [05:22:18] | <EclipseGc> | well, anyway like I said, about to go do lunch, but I just wanted to mention that this logic looks really sound to me |
| [05:23:11] | <drakythe> | anarcat: Well since I'm messing around with Aegir in my spare time anyway, where should I keep my eyes out for the 2.0 alpha releases? |
| [05:23:30] | <anarcat> | drakythe: it will be announced in the usual places |
| [05:23:51] | <drakythe> | okay, cool |
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| [06:17:48] | <cweagans> | EclipseGc: anarcat: omega8cc: IMO, one of the biggest things that can be done to improve DX is to replace all the hardcoded lists with views. That's possible now, even before a D7 port or converting everything to entities. |
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| [06:37:22] | <anarcat> | cweagans: there are patches to review for that |
| [06:39:30] | <omega8cc> | cweagans: it is a work in progress http://drupal.org/node/588728 |
| [06:39:31] | <hefring> | http://drupal.org/node/588728 => #588728: Meta: Views integration redux => Hostmaster (Aegir), Code, normal, active, 26 comments, 2 IRC mentions |
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| [07:01:02] | <JD-FP> | After reading over the many resources out there, I'm still unsure of the way to move forward when using drush_make stubs + repos. Does everyone follow EclipseGc's perspective of putting contrib in the profile folder? If so, do they just not use drush dl/en (since it throws everything into the /sites/all/modules? |
| [07:03:58] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: install profiles stubs+contrib modules places modules in profile/$profile/modules/contrib/* usually |
| [07:06:38] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: right, but doesn't that keep you from developing on the server, since you'd either have to re-deploy every time you add a new module or have your modules show up in two different places? |
| [07:07:35] | <JD-FP> | (which i understand/agree that you always want to re-deploy when going to production, I'm just talking about live development) |
| [07:08:24] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: drush dl views --destination="profile/$profile/modules/contrib" |
| [07:08:29] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: or something close to that |
| [07:08:35] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: you'll have to play a bit, but I think that should work |
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| [07:09:32] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: awesome, thanks! Anecdotally, have you seen people adopting this method? It seemed to go over like a lead balloon in those comments :) |
| [07:10:14] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: I took this method for Devseed, who passed it on to Phase II and between the two of them, they're the only truly successful distributors of platforms on drupal out there |
| [07:10:22] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: so anecdotally, I'd say people are full of crap |
| [07:10:23] | <EclipseGc> | :-) |
| [07:10:28] | <JD-FP> | lol |
| [07:10:40] | <EclipseGc> | but that could just be me talking out my ass |
| [07:11:24] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: also, fwiw, if you're actively developing custom modules, using git to store those, and --working-copy on drush make can be a God-send |
| [07:11:53] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: gimme that url where I posted all this |
| [07:11:59] | <EclipseGc> | been a while since I read the bs comments :-) |
| [07:12:29] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: also, ffr: http://drush.ws/ |
| [07:12:34] | <EclipseGc> | docs on drush stuff |
| [07:13:30] | <JD-FP> | it was drupal.org/node/1006620 |
| [07:14:44] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: I'm still not sure where I stand on it. Everything you said made sense, and is very much aegir-like, but it's so different from everything I've ever heard that it feels like a bigger jump than it probably is. |
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| [07:15:33] | <JD-FP> | Plus, I'm just getting into it, and I'm in Omega's lshell, so who knows what I'm cut off from |
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| [07:19:22] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: well, here's the thing |
| [07:19:38] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: most of the community doesn't grok this cause most of the community doesn't build install profile |
| [07:19:40] | <EclipseGc> | profiles* |
| [07:21:20] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: but what's worth understanding here is that (as I outline in these comments) 1.) Install profiles pin specific versions of a module so that they have tighter control over their stability 2.) In an aegir style system, you are NEVER going to just update views for sites/all/modules and upgrade all sites on that platform. Upgradability is a platform/profile binary situation where you upgrade from one binary to another compatible binary |
| [07:21:37] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: anyone discussing full platform upgrades is ONLY using standard |
| [07:21:40] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: I fully agree |
| [07:21:52] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: and those people don't know a profile from a hole in the ground |
| [07:22:10] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: which is, by and large, the sort of comments on that node |
| [07:22:49] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: I don't think I'd ever have thought twice about it if not for Aegir. |
| [07:23:06] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: well, Aegir really formalizes the appropriate way to do this anyway |
| [07:23:46] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: I think that a normal person hears, "distribution," and they think OpenAtrium/NodeSource/Videola |
| [07:23:55] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: my example about open atrium getting a specific version of views and applying patches AND having another install profile on that same platform that uses a different version of views, is still totally valid |
| [07:24:13] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: sure, but all 3 of those profiles likely use different versions of the same modules |
| [07:24:22] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: so sites/all/modules is immediately useless |
| [07:24:28] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: no doubt. And there's no other sane way to do it |
| [07:24:37] | * EclipseGc nods |
| [07:24:56] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: also, if you wanted something in sites/all/modules I think you can just toss that info into the stub make file |
| [07:25:15] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: if it's not in the profile specifically it'll end up in sites/all (I think) |
| [07:25:34] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: I don't use that workflow, so I'm guessing, but it's a good guess |
| [07:25:58] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: I assume you're right, since that's what happens if you just drush make a single file directly |
| [07:27:25] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: yup |
| [07:28:58] | <anarcat> | mig5: ping |
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| [07:29:35] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: The biggest challenge here is that all the terminology means something counterintuitive unless you're thinking about Aegir and the "site as a platform instance" thing. It takes some time to really believe, "I can do that?" with what's possible in Aegir, even if you know how amazing drush is. |
| [07:31:05] | <JD-FP> | Even now, I'm still not sure when to use features/strongarm, and when to use .install or hand-rolled modules |
| [07:31:31] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: yeah, that's a tricky one |
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| [07:33:46] | <EclipseGc> | JD-FP: really the ONLY person who has a point in this whole set of replies is webchick: http://drupal.org/node/1006620#comment-4833524 |
| [07:33:47] | <hefring> | http://drupal.org/node/1006620 => Drush Make theory for happy profile development => 31 comments, 5 IRC mentions |
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| [07:37:05] | <JD-FP> | EclipseGc: Most people probably just say, "Well sure, EclipseGc does it that way. I've seen his contrib list, and he's obviously a witch." |
| [07:37:17] | <EclipseGc> | lol |
| [07:37:18] | <cweagans> | A WITCH! |
| [07:37:23] | <EclipseGc> | don't burn me |
| [07:37:30] | <JD-FP> | do you weigh more than a duck? |
| [07:37:32] | <EclipseGc> | Dries put this nose on me |
| [07:38:04] | <anarcat> | a duck! |
| [07:38:25] | * anarcat mumbles something about small pebbles |
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| [07:57:52] | <mig5> | EclipseGc: I am |
| [07:57:53] | <mig5> | anarcat: pong |
| [07:58:43] | <EclipseGc> | mig5: how's it going? wish I could have made it |
| [07:59:15] | <anarcat> | mig5: hey |
| [07:59:23] | <anarcat> | mig5: did you get my mail about mailman? |
| [08:00:20] | <mig5> | anarcat: hmm.. no, I don't think so! when did you send it? |
| [08:00:33] | <mig5> | EclipseGc: it's a bit small for a drupalcon, but it's a great venue and some good talks |
| [08:00:35] | <anarcat> | a while back |
| [08:01:41] | <anarcat> | mig5: Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:43:42 -0500 |
| [08:01:41] | <mig5> | hmm |
| [08:01:47] | <EclipseGc> | mig5: awesome to hear. So many freaking photos of the sun and the beach |
| [08:01:49] | <EclipseGc> | mig5: pissing me off |
| [08:01:49] | <anarcat> | Message-ID: <87zjzy42xt.fsf@marcos.anarcat.ath.cx> |
| [08:02:17] | <mig5> | haha |
| [08:02:21] | <mig5> | anarcat: can't find it... Subject line? |
| [08:02:45] | <mig5> | i only have issue queue emails from you around that time |
| [08:03:08] | <EclipseGc> | mig5, anarcat: sorry I've been MIA, got sucked into core work |
| [08:03:13] | <EclipseGc> | had to focus |
| [08:03:17] | <anarcat> | EclipseGc: no problem |
| [08:03:20] | <anarcat> | i was mia myself :) |
| [08:04:02] | <mig5> | i'm pretty much always MIA :) |
| [08:05:11] | * anarcat just discovered that repeated apache2ctl graceful during Aegir's mass migration are killing apache |
| [08:05:23] | <anarcat> | trashing the APC cache aaaand killing the process pool |
| [08:05:26] | <anarcat> | just marvelous |
| [08:05:37] | <anarcat> | i'm in this shitty deadlock |
| [08:05:45] | <anarcat> | i need to move those apache threads to a frontend web node |
| [08:05:52] | <anarcat> | buuut i can't do that because cluster mode conflicts with SSL |
| [08:06:04] | <anarcat> | so i started reshuffling the SSL code, and that cluster conflict is *still* not fixed |
| [08:06:15] | <anarcat> | so i still need to finish that, but that's all on 2.x |
| [08:06:24] | <anarcat> | so not only do we need to build that new frontend, we also need to upgrade to 2.x |
| [08:06:29] | <anarcat> | wheepeedifuckingdoo |
| [08:06:48] | <mig5> | scary, i know a big government department using cluster mode :) |
| [08:06:49] | <anarcat> | don't you love "let's upgrade core" thursdays? |
| [08:06:58] | <mig5> | they terminate SSL with Pound or similar, I think |
| [08:07:03] | <anarcat> | smart folks |
| [08:07:12] | <mig5> | well of course, i built it for them :) |
| [08:07:16] | <anarcat> | haha nice :) |
| [08:07:22] | <anarcat> | do you provision ssl with aegir? |
| [08:07:28] | <mig5> | nah |
| [08:07:30] | <anarcat> | or is it transparent for aegir? |
| [08:07:35] | <mig5> | transparent |
| [08:07:37] | <mig5> | it doesn't know about it |
| [08:07:48] | <anarcat> | because one problem i saw with load balancers and so on is that the port number change freaks out URl rewriting routines of drupal |
| [08:07:59] | <anarcat> | so login links and crap like that don't point to the right proto |
| [08:08:05] | <mig5> | oh i think we make some modifications to local.settings.php |
| [08:08:14] | <mig5> | $conf['https'] = TRUE; and maybe something to do with X_FORWARDED_PROTO |
| [08:08:21] | <anarcat> | ah right |
| [08:08:27] | <anarcat> | well, if all sites are https, you're lucky |
| [08:08:37] | <anarcat> | we have crazy heterogeneous envs here |
| [08:08:44] | <mig5> | i think it works even without it |
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| [08:29:30] | <omega8cc> | anarcat: nginx survives any number of concurrent reload attempts because it ignores any other attempt than that currently in progress, plus, it doesn't trash APC, obviously |
| [08:29:45] | * anarcat nods |
| [08:30:01] | <anarcat> | yeah, that's a good point |
| [08:30:20] | <anarcat> | hey, btw... i noticed you pushed a bunch of commits to 1.x.. i was wondering why they weren't pushed to 2.x.. |
| [08:31:41] | <omega8cc> | I was afraid that 1.10 is about to release, while 2.x needs that big clean up anyway, but I can push them there anyway |
| [08:32:24] | <anarcat> | yeah, i'd rather see that |
| [08:32:34] | <omega8cc> | ok |
| [08:32:40] | <anarcat> | i think we should start considering the 1.x branch open for critical changes only |
| [08:32:47] | <anarcat> | at least all the coding i do these days is on 2.x |
| [08:32:55] | <anarcat> | e.g. i won't merge the new SSL stuff on 1.x |
| [08:33:17] | <anarcat> | of course, critical performance issues, security problems and critical bugs should be backported to 1.x, but we should push to 2.x first |
| [08:33:20] | <anarcat> | thanks! |
| [08:33:46] | <anarcat> | omega8cc: speaking of which, have you lookat the at the SSL refactoring? |
| [08:33:51] | <omega8cc> | there was that issue which pushed me a bit to fix the stuff in 1.x anyway, but sure, I will keep that order in mind |
| [08:34:07] | <anarcat> | cool |
| [08:34:40] | <omega8cc> | not yet, because we never used it, and instead terminating SSL via local simple Nginx proxy |
| [08:35:00] | <anarcat> | i see |
| [08:35:05] | <anarcat> | like mig5 was mentionning, basically |
| [08:35:10] | <omega8cc> | but I would love to be able to drop this workaround |
| [08:35:13] | <omega8cc> | yep |
| [08:35:56] | <anarcat> | well, i'm not sure how the changes affect nginx, i actually hope they don't and everything still works ;) |
| [08:36:59] | <omega8cc> | we have that switch in BOA which allows to install/upgrade/downgrade from the forked Aegir to vanilla Aegir, so we can test this easily |
| [08:37:49] | <anarcat> | cool |
| [08:38:10] | <omega8cc> | I will try how it works and report issues, if any, but I don't think it should break anything if it works with Apache |
| [08:39:11] | <anarcat> | ok |
| [08:39:19] | <anarcat> | i got this freaky bug report here: https://drupal.org/node/1907028 |
| [08:39:27] | <anarcat> | but i don't think it's the real thing... |
| [08:39:34] | <anarcat> | anyways, i'll test all this before pushing alpha1 |
| [08:41:12] | <omega8cc> | hmm.. we have merged in 2.x on Jan 22 and the last commit included is from Jan 7, so we probably didn't test this yet |
| [08:42:16] | <anarcat> | yeah, i merged the topic branch last week |
| [08:42:25] | <omega8cc> | noticed |
| [08:42:37] | <omega8cc> | so we may need to test this better |
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| [08:59:24] | <hefring> | Git => merge release.sh from 1.x => http://drupalcode.org/project/provision.git/commitdiff/d0da3bf0eea8040e5... |
| [08:59:24] | <hefring> | Git => change version information for release 2.0-alpha1 => http://drupalcode.org/project/provision.git/commitdiff/836ab5d3d1b5ac78c... |
| [08:59:24] | <hefring> | Git => Revert "change version information for release 2.0-alpha1" => http://drupalcode.org/project/provision.git/commitdiff/0f5df6086468065a5... |
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| [10:19:35] | <anarcat> | geez, what a chore! |
| [10:19:38] | <anarcat> | http://community.aegirproject.org/2.0-alpha1 |
| [10:19:47] | <anarcat> | not ready yet, just doing the release notes is taking for *ever*! :) |
| [10:20:04] | <anarcat> | i spent more than an hour now working on looking only at the backend! |
| [10:24:45] | <cweagans> | anarcat: "IP allocation was moved to the frontend to the frontend" |
| [10:24:53] | <anarcat> | awesome |
| [10:24:58] | <anarcat> | mind fixing it? :) |
| [10:25:02] | <anarcat> | backend to frontend |
| [10:26:44] | <anarcat> | nm, i'll do it |
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