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| [16:31:33] | <formatC^vt> | gboudrias> yes, this is Aegir3 https://www.drupal.org/node/2449695 |
| [16:31:34] | <hefring> | https://www.drupal.org/node/2449695 => Missing PHP vars from defualt Drupal settings.php [#2449695] => 5 comments, 1 IRC mention |
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| [05:35:55] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: ping |
| [06:38:59] | <ergonlogic> | cweagans: pong |
| [06:40:30] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: I was reading up on Project Atomic, and it sounded like somebody already had a good process for running Kubernetes on Debian that should be pretty easy to automate with Ansible. http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/08/testing-nulecule-on-debian/ |
| [06:40:56] | <ergonlogic> | neat |
| [06:40:59] | <ergonlogic> | I'll take a look |
| [06:41:48] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: secondly, I've got a big long comment typed out to Jon on Github regarding the direction of Terra and Aegir. Want to read it before I post it? |
| [06:42:07] | <ergonlogic> | if you like |
| [06:42:51] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: http://privatepaste.com/d4d603b60d -- there's some opinions in there that I haven't previously expressed to you regarding the direction of the aegir project. |
| [06:43:00] | <cweagans> | which is why I ask |
| [06:43:05] | <ergonlogic> | ok, fair enough |
| [06:43:13] | <ergonlogic> | so far our visions have aligned pretty well |
| [06:43:18] | <ergonlogic> | but I apprecite the head's up |
| [06:43:39] | <cweagans> | And for your reference, I'm replying to https://github.com/terra-ops/terra-cli/issues/67#issuecomment-128921824 |
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| [06:56:47] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: anything overly surprising so far? |
| [06:57:24] | <ergonlogic> | nope |
| [06:57:33] | <ergonlogic> | I saw Jon's post last night |
| [06:57:41] | <ergonlogic> | and have been pondering |
| [06:57:47] | <ergonlogic> | I think this is a fair response |
| [06:59:24] | <cweagans> | ergonlogic: does it seem too lengthy? I tend to ramble a bit sometimes, but I looked through everything and didn't see anything that I could strip out without also losing meaning. |
| [06:59:59] | <ergonlogic> | nope |
| [07:00:14] | <ergonlogic> | it summarizes where we're at really well, imo |
| [07:01:46] | <ergonlogic> | fwiw, I've been trying to move all my projects in the Unix direction of "do one thing and do it well" |
| [07:02:08] | * cweagans is very on board with that. |
| [07:02:34] | <ergonlogic> | so I think we should be very much looking at ways to break Aegir up into coherent chunk |
| [07:02:37] | <ergonlogic> | s |
| [07:02:45] | <ergonlogic> | rather that the monolith we have now |
| [07:03:06] | <ergonlogic> | where everything is so tightly bound, we can't really replce anything |
| [07:03:29] | <ergonlogic> | without serious worry that the whole will crumble |
| [07:03:55] | <ergonlogic> | imho, unix will outlast just about every other technology |
| [07:04:00] | <cweagans> | ha, yeah. Slimming down what "Aegir" actually refers to will help a lot with that. |
| [07:04:44] | <ergonlogic> | Nicholas had been suggesting the Nine Daughters of Aegir, as a metaphor |
| [07:05:44] | <ergonlogic> | while Aegir itself should be slimmer, I decided to make Rán a separate, but complementary, project in that spirit |
| [07:06:10] | <ergonlogic> | If Aegir becomes just the Drupal integration layer, that's ok |
| [07:06:21] | <cweagans> | Right, and I think that's a good move, both in terms of composability and in terms of technical complexity :) |
| [07:06:26] | <ergonlogic> | I think the broader project can support Aegir, Rán, Terra, etc. |
| [07:06:32] | <cweagans> | both of the previous statements, that is |
| [07:07:06] | <ergonlogic> | good :) |
| [07:09:14] | <ergonlogic> | so, my only suggestions would be to see if you can break up some of the bullets into paragraphs, or something |
| [07:09:21] | <ergonlogic> | bit of a wall of text effect |
| [07:10:00] | <cweagans> | Fair enough. |
| [07:17:15] | <ergonlogic> | ever hear of "Crocker's Rules"? |
| [07:17:32] | <cweagans> | nope |
| [07:17:32] | * cweagans googles |
| [07:17:43] | <ergonlogic> | http://sl4.org/crocker.html |
| [07:17:59] | <ergonlogic> | for my part, I always try not to take offence |
| [07:18:41] | <ergonlogic> | it's kinf of a corrolary to "assume good faith" |
| [07:18:52] | <cweagans> | wow. |
| [07:19:03] | <cweagans> | That's how I've been communicating all this time and didn't even know it. |
| [07:19:04] | <cweagans> | :P |
| [07:19:24] | <ergonlogic> | I appreciate that you're building bridges and trying to ensure you don't give offense |
| [07:19:40] | <ergonlogic> | I think as a project we should try to invite direct communication |
| [07:20:12] | <ergonlogic> | of course, it can't be imposed |
| [07:21:01] | <ergonlogic> | and saying one is operating by "Crocker's rules" only invites directness |
| [07:21:05] | <ergonlogic> | but anyway |
| [07:21:20] | <cweagans> | Honestly, it (building bridges and trying to not offend) is a bit selfish in this case. We're already pretty time-constrained as a development team. We need Jon. He's a good developer, and I think he share's a lot of the same intents as us, even if the approaches are different. It seems like he has a good eye for UX and DX, too, and that's something that we, as a project, are in deperate need of. |
| [07:21:33] | <cweagans> | Thanks for the pointer to Crocker's Rules, though. That's really cool :) |
| [07:21:47] | <ergonlogic> | oh, I know |
| [07:21:51] | <ergonlogic> | and agree |
| [07:22:45] | <ergonlogic> | I've just been feeling a lot more tension of late |
| [07:24:43] | <ergonlogic> | in the core/dev community, that is |
| [07:27:32] | <cweagans> | I was pretty angry about Terra initially. Over time, though, I realized that the intent behind the project was not malevolent and that our interests weren't conflicting. If it doesn't work out that Terra can merge back into the Aegir project, either wholly or in part, I'd consider it a loss for our project, but certainly not an obstacle that can't be eventually overcome. Of course, I'd like to avoid that situation, but if it's unavoidable, |
| [07:27:32] | <cweagans> | then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I've become pretty adept lately at not giving a damn about things like that :) |
| [07:27:47] | <ergonlogic> | actually, come to think of it, it's essentially a human Postel's Prescription: “Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send”. |
| [07:27:57] | <ergonlogic> | again, part of unix philsophy |
| [07:28:00] | <cweagans> | I'm hoping that a resolution on this particular debate will resolve any questions about the relations of the projects and hopefully resolve any of the tension in the core dev team. |
| [07:28:02] | <cweagans> | Right :) |
| [07:28:35] | <ergonlogic> | yep |
| [07:28:44] | <cweagans> | also, I ran across this: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Offense |
| [07:29:00] | <cweagans> | kind of hit home for me. I wasn't exactly sure why I was offended at the idea of Terra. |
| [07:35:07] | <ergonlogic> | lesswrong is great |
| [07:35:47] | <ergonlogic> | ok, gtg |
| [07:36:14] | <cweagans> | have a good weekend. If you have a chance, I'd love your input on that GH issue. |
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