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| [06:03:33] | <helmo42[m]> | Hi all, ergonlog1c bgm jonpugh colan cweagans gboudrias memtkmcc .. Scrum time?. |
| [06:07:06] | <helmo42[m]> | I messed around with GitLab CI a bit today to see if I could quickly replicate the debian install tests from Jenkins there. |
| [06:07:07] | <helmo42[m]> | I think I hit some rate limiter ... after 10 jobs it's no longer starting them. |
| [06:07:08] | <helmo42[m]> | But just before that I had a successful install there of our unstable debian packages on Jessie. https://gitlab.com/aegir/provision/builds/11448410 |
| [06:08:00] | <helmo42[m]> | jonpugh: have you tested https://www.drupal.org/node/2855368 ? .. I'd like to get that in this week. |
| [06:08:00] | <hefring> | https://www.drupal.org/node/2855368 => Move symlink call to match provision update. [#2855368] => 4 comments, 1 IRC mention |
| [06:08:58] | <helmo42[m]> | We're almost due for a release ... per we could release 3.10 next week. https://www.drupal.org/node/2841435 |
| [06:08:58] | <hefring> | https://www.drupal.org/node/2841435 => [meta] 3.10 release (bugfix/patches) [#2841435] => 5 comments, 1 IRC mention |
| [06:11:42] | <helmo42[m]> | Too bad we havn't got any of the there mentioned 'Nice to have' issue fixed ... now is the chance for a sprint... |
| [06:12:03] | <roycroft> | hello, folks |
| [06:12:13] | <roycroft> | i've asked a few questions here before, and you all have been most helpful |
| [06:12:30] | <roycroft> | as a reminder, i have extensive unix experience, but not much with aegir |
| [06:12:41] | <roycroft> | nor with linux, actually - i've only been using linux for a few years |
| [06:13:00] | <roycroft> | today my concern is more of best practices, not a specific problem with aegir |
| [06:13:15] | <anarcat> | helmo42[m]: how's matrix treating you? :) |
| [06:13:16] | <roycroft> | i'm trying to boss-proof our systems |
| [06:13:24] | <roycroft> | and it's not working out well |
| [06:13:32] | <roycroft> | he keeps making random changes to production sites and breaking things |
| [06:13:49] | <roycroft> | i've built him a sandbox machine to do development, but so far i've had problems getting him to use it |
| [06:13:56] | <helmo42[m]> | anarcat: it has it's rough edges still :( but it works |
| [06:14:03] | <roycroft> | that's mostly a social problem that i'll deal with |
| [06:14:36] | <roycroft> | however, in the course of doing so, i'm trying to wrap my head around a good development cycle for drupal sites |
| [06:14:56] | <roycroft> | what i'd like to do is build an aegir master, and not host any sites on that machine |
| [06:15:02] | <helmo42[m]> | roycroft: yes taking away admin rights is often not apreciated ;) |
| [06:15:04] | <roycroft> | and then build multiple aegir servers |
| [06:15:09] | <roycroft> | we do many sites with ssl |
| [06:15:17] | <roycroft> | and ssl + aegir is still a mess |
| [06:15:23] | <roycroft> | so i spin off every ssl site onto its own vm |
| [06:15:31] | <roycroft> | that seems to be the most sane way to handle it for now |
| [06:15:46] | <roycroft> | i should back up a moment |
| [06:15:53] | <roycroft> | there is an actual problem that may be aegir-related |
| [06:16:11] | <roycroft> | but is probably a boss-senior-moment thing |
| [06:16:14] | <helmo42[m]> | hosting_https is ready of testing https://gitlab.com/aegir/hosting_https |
| [06:16:15] | <anarcat> | helmo42[m]: i'm curious - like what? |
| [06:16:19] | <roycroft> | currently our production stuff is on aegir 2 |
| [06:16:22] | <roycroft> | with drupal 7 |
| [06:16:40] | <roycroft> | i have a server, foo.com, which is in production |
| [06:16:55] | <roycroft> | my boss set up test.foo.com and pointed it to the production machine as well |
| [06:17:02] | <roycroft> | which is what i don't want him to do, but that's another issue |
| [06:17:13] | <roycroft> | the other day, he installed some new modules in test.foo.com using aegir |
| [06:17:20] | <roycroft> | and when he pushed the site out it broke foo.com |
| [06:17:30] | <roycroft> | i had to restore foo.com's database to get it functional again |
| [06:17:48] | <roycroft> | he uses the same platform for both sites |
| [06:17:56] | <roycroft> | the test and the production |
| [06:18:00] | <helmo42[m]> | boss like people often have to learn to let go ... |
| [06:18:23] | <roycroft> | not knowing aegir well, i still don't see how enabling modules in test.foo.com would break foo.com |
| [06:18:49] | <roycroft> | the database server on that vm has separate databases for both foo.com and test.foo.com |
| [06:19:00] | <helmo42[m]> | I have hosting_https working with slave servers, and using hosting_git my customer does not have to loggin to aegir anyway ... codeis deployed from a webhook from e.g. GitLab |
| [06:19:00] | <roycroft> | yet when i restored foo.com's database, both test.foo.com and foo.com worked |
| [06:19:05] | <roycroft> | they were both broken prior to that |
| [06:19:32] | <roycroft> | so any thoughts on how that might happen would be appreciated |
| [06:19:58] | <roycroft> | i just set up an aegir 3 development vm so my boss can migrate to aegir 3/drupal 8 |
| [06:20:05] | <helmo42[m]> | anarcat: I have the riot matrix client on my phone ... and it breaks bluetooth audio ... reboot required to get it working again :( |
| [06:20:09] | <roycroft> | i've acl'ed that vm so that it cannot be accessed off-site |
| [06:20:21] | <anarcat> | helmo42[m]: ouch. wth... |
| [06:20:22] | <roycroft> | my boss likes to leave default passwords on development stuff |
| [06:20:35] | <roycroft> | he can't be bothered to think about security |
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| [06:20:50] | <roycroft> | i still want to use a model of aegir master/aegir server machines |
| [06:20:54] | <helmo42[m]> | anarcat: and verifying keys to every one's new devices can be a hassle. (needed for e2e crypto) |
| [06:20:59] | <roycroft> | that just seems a lot cleaner than having the aegir master push to itself |
| [06:21:10] | <roycroft> | but now i have this added complication |
| [06:21:13] | <anarcat> | helmo42[m]: well, you kind of have to do that ;) |
| [06:21:18] | <helmo42[m]> | so not something I could let non-nerds do. |
| [06:21:25] | <roycroft> | i have devlopment.aegir.master and development.aegir.server |
| [06:21:33] | <roycroft> | and i want my boss to do *all* his development/testing on that |
| [06:21:45] | <roycroft> | then i'll have production.aegir.master and production.aegir.server |
| [06:22:04] | <roycroft> | the question is how best to migrate things from development to production |
| [06:22:25] | <roycroft> | i know aegir is designed to be able to do development and production with the same aegir master |
| [06:22:45] | <roycroft> | i just have so many concerns about security and lack of documentation skills on the part of my boss |
| [06:22:56] | <roycroft> | he always manages to break things that are impossible to break |
| [06:23:25] | <roycroft> | is it reasonable to isolate development from production like i described and still make it possible to push to production? |
| [06:23:42] | <roycroft> | maybe with a drush script to suck the platform down from development and install it in production? |
| [06:23:53] | <roycroft> | or some similar mechanism |
| [06:24:09] | <helmo42[m]> | anarcat: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/2537 might help a bit |
| [06:24:20] | <roycroft> | there's another side issue as well |
| [06:24:38] | <anarcat> | helmo42[m]: it's kind of nuts to think that Signal is solving all those issues in parallel |
| [06:24:39] | <anarcat> | grr. |
| [06:24:39] | <roycroft> | my boss is famous for breaking things horribly and then demanding that i restore the last known working state immediately |
| [06:24:55] | <roycroft> | the backup software i use (amanda) allows me to recover, but it can sometimes take several hours |
| [06:25:15] | <roycroft> | so on development machines i set up cron jobs to make a tarball and do a database dump every 30 minutes |
| [06:25:20] | <roycroft> | and keep those for a week |
| [06:25:24] | <roycroft> | on the local machine |
| [06:25:33] | <helmo42[m]> | roycroft: http://drupal.org/project/hosting_remote_import can help to bridge that for you |
| [06:25:33] | <roycroft> | i can't afford the resources to do that on production machines |
| [06:25:51] | <roycroft> | so that's another reason to isolate development from production |
| [06:26:00] | <roycroft> | thanks, helmo42[m] - i |
| [06:26:09] | <roycroft> | shall look at that and see if it will help |
| [06:26:37] | <roycroft> | please understand that i'm not here to rant about my boss |
| [06:26:51] | <roycroft> | he has his habits, and he's pushing 70, so those habits will not change at this point |
| [06:27:24] | <roycroft> | my goal is to make everything work smoothly, taking into consideration (or in spite of?) my boss' work flow |
| [06:27:45] | <roycroft> | my bigger goal is for a production website to never, ever break because someone is doing development |
| [06:44:51] | <colan> | roycroft: yes, that's what i do with Remote Import. Dev for development, Staging for testing before trying things on Prod, and then Prod (if stuff on Staging works). |
| [06:45:38] | <colan> | So you need 3 separate Aegir environments, but the aegir user must be able to communicate with the others over ssh. |
| [06:47:11] | <colan> | helmo42[m]: there's also https://www.drupal.org/node/2650290, but i haven't head time to test in depth yet. |
| [06:47:12] | <hefring> | https://www.drupal.org/node/2650290 => Cannot find profiles beneath top-level directories [#2650290] => 16 comments, 1 IRC mention |
| [06:50:34] | <helmo42[m]> | colan: I have the branch merged onto on my dev server and not seen regressions sofar .... not that I looked for them |
| [06:51:14] | <colan> | cool. all i can tell you so far is that the code looks good. |
| [06:51:30] | <colan> | feel free to merge if you're comfortable. |
| [06:51:41] | <colan> | i'm sure it's better than what was there before. ;) |
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| [08:05:57] | <cweagans_> | sigh. nickserv isn't very cooperative today. |
| [08:07:22] | <cweagans_> | @ergonlogic Is scrum still happening during this time block? |
| [08:07:45] | <ergonlogic> | cweagans_: It appears to start around 2 EST these days |
| [08:07:51] | <ergonlogic> | so, a couple hours ago |
| [08:07:53] | <cweagans_> | Oh. |
| [08:07:58] | * cweagans_ updates calendar |
| [08:08:20] | <cweagans_> | @ergonlogic I've finally got my Thursdays freed up, so I should be able to start joining again. |
| [08:08:31] | <cweagans_> | And hopefully do things with Aegir in general |
| [08:11:56] | <ergonlogic> | cweagans_: great news! |
| [08:12:29] | <ergonlogic> | I'd started on some aegirNG stuff a while back, but have stalled |
| [08:12:33] | <cweagans_> | ergonlogic: We're in the process of deploying Aegir 3 at NASA atm. I have a patch for hosting_s3 if you're interested. |
| [08:12:35] | <cweagans_> | I saw that work. |
| [08:12:42] | <cweagans_> | Looks interesting. |
| [08:12:43] | <ergonlogic> | https://gitlab.com/aegir/aegir |
| [08:12:46] | <cweagans_> | Haven't had time to dive in just yet though. |
| [08:12:48] | <ergonlogic> | oh, great |
| [08:13:07] | <ergonlogic> | it's based on the kubernetes stuff Colan and I built for Aegir3 |
| [08:13:18] | <ergonlogic> | or, rather, it will be |
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